Sheboygan Spirit Forum

I recently expressed what to me are serious concerns regarding sticking public web cams in our midst.  Some of you don't seem to care or grasp the potential issues that could arise from this so I requested information from someone who is extremely savvy on these things and wanted to share our communication. Perhaps his explanation will further clarify my concerns...

I wrote
In the city I reside in there has been an addition of the use of webcams by a newly developed city tourism dept.

Follow this:
1. New tourism dept. switches server from the city servers to a private company (the tourism director's husband happens to work for said company!) Red flags go up all over the place for me...

2. Suddenly they announce an interest in adding web cams to select areas of the city.

3. They follow thru with this, first using active X controls. Exposed to public via a local forum, active X control is removed and Java is used in its place.

4. Webcam is now being used to monitor a specific section of the city by this tourism dept.

Now, before you get to thinking I'm just being paranoid, please consider my concerns. I think only police should be allowed to employ the use of webcams and only for potential crime.

We have several neighborhoods who have been fighting, begging and pleading for cameras in local parks where drugs, gangs and general crime is running rampant. They've been ignored. Our gangs in the last year have gone up from 27 to 41. We have very real concerns and would like to see cameras installed for use by law enforcement to monitor crime, not the average citizen looking to enjoy a day at our lake (that's where the current web cam is and another one is going to be added soon).

So basically what I'm asking is, am I correct to be concerned about this use of public webcams? Who wants to think they're being viewed by a tourism dept.? We also have a very corrupt mayor who pulled quite a few strings and broke the law by buying a vote to get this tourism dept. in the hands of the city instead of where it was, which was where it should be - a County Chamber of Commerce.

I sincerely feel we have valid reasons, but would like the thoughts of those not directly involved -- who can merely view this from an objective and educated angle, as I'm obviously very personally involved and affected. Thank you!!

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HIS ANSWER:

I think you are justified to be concerned.

I also think cameras deter crime...but at the same time they open up a huge debate as to what will be done with the footage and who will be pointing the cameras.

America is moving more and more to the use of these things, while the EU has been sticking them just about everywhere and have gotten use to them for the most part. The word here in my part of the U.S. is that we will forget about them once they are in. 

Our town has been rocked by the occasional story about cameras being mis-used in stores, restaurants and public bathrooms that certainly get you thinking about camera abuse. And just about any dress/skirt that is shorter than 4" above the knees came be *upskirted* (completely) by store security cameras!

And the Google cams that display city streets have been under fire for the same reasons that you bring up.

The next concern with your situation is if they put the footage on the tourist counsel's website, which would then bring the world into your neighborhood. This is a bad idea to me. If a bad guy can see a potential victim's house and figure out where they live...this is a very unsafe situation, from my thinking.

I would stay on top of this matter and dig around and find out as much as possible. You are smart to question the use of cams in today's world.

James

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I also got a response from a programmer regarding security and the use of Java and he said Java can be manipulated by a programmer just as Active X can, only it's a bit more difficult.

I still smell something rotten in the works regarding these public web cams and can't get comfortable with it.  I don't believe I ever will. 

 :bl:  Thanks, Taylor...

Heck yeah we ought to be concerned as in REVOLT!  This is insane man - -you want something you're doing at the lake on a web cam for these idiots? How do you know someone isn't watching you at any time you're in that camera's view?

CAN YOU SAY EXPOSE YOURSELF TO THE ENTIRE WORLD???

That word - revolt - the way things are going it wouldn't surprise me to see some sort of people's revolution get started here in town.  Stupid administration is just asking for it.

Here -- this could be you - - to anyone in the world...

Web cam at Hard Rock Hotel & Casino
See it online: http://live12.truelook.com/face/hrface.jsp?name=/hardrock/pool&func=live&overlay=default&width=640&height=480 (http://live12.truelook.com/face/hrface.jsp?name=/hardrock/pool&func=live&overlay=default&width=640&height=480)

Look at how, with a few clicks of my mouse, I was able to zoom right in on these unsuspecting people in REAL time. I don't know about you guys/gals, but I sure as hell wouldn't like that if that were me and just any 'ol nutcase could zoom in and get a picture like that of me or my niece's little kids, etc.  In a perverts hands, the sky is the limit as to what they could do to you. And this could be you now that these blasted things are being used in Sheboygan. Think people, please!

(http://www.jrsdomain.com/spirit/cam1.jpg)

(http://www.jrsdomain.com/spirit/cam2.jpg)


A VISIT AT THE LAKE, MARINA ETC. SHOULD BE A CONSTITUTIONALLY PROTECTED ACTIVITY!!!

Boy, its a voyeur's delight.  All the perverts out there have just had their dream come true.  This is SICK. BlEaH

  OMG !!  That was taken from a web cam, on the internet???

I'd be furious if someone could do that to me!!  Well, so much for enjoying our lake front any more. Will have to go to Elkhart or Terry Andre or something, Be dog-goned if I'm going to enjoy our lake front knowing UBO and minions could be watching my every move.


Bingo, still!!!

I've been trying to get that tourism cam thing to zoom in on boats and people. How do you do that? 

We can see where YOU are coming from.

Holy moly!!!  That is nuts!  So let me see if I got this right...  I'm at the lake, the area I'm at is in view of this foolish web cam, so someone could see me, as in while watching on the INTERNET??? As in exposing me to anyone in the freaking world???

I don't like this. I don't like this at all. 

Once you've got the web cam loaded and running, you can zoom in by clicking on an area of the picture -- it takes a few seconds. There is also a zoom slider on the right hand side of this particular one. Another little trick is to use your r-click and draw a box around the area you want to zoom in on, then let go.  It's amazing what you can all see. Let's just say the first two  I got were less family-friendly than these two by far...  #spl&

*Here are a few resources to show the dangers behind these D**N web cams:*

A coworker uses a webcam to upskirt his coworker. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81dQevFQ5xA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=81dQevFQ5xA))

A worm discovered in the wild in 2004 that's not just settling for invading users' PCs--it wants to invade their homes, too. (http://news.com.com/Virus+alert%3A+Spies+prize+Webcams%27+eyes/2100-7349-5320674.html?part=dht&tag=ntop (http://news.com.com/Virus+alert%3A+Spies+prize+Webcams%27+eyes/2100-7349-5320674.html?part=dht&tag=ntop))

According to Spanish newspaper reports, two seventeen year-olds were arrested yesterday in Alicante, charged with creating a Trojan horse which allowed them to remotely take control of webcams within local educational institutions. This enabled the duo to spy on students and record compromising images, which they then used to blackmail the victims into giving them money. (http://www.sophos.com/pressoffice/news/articles/2006/11/spanish_webcam.html (http://www.sophos.com/pressoffice/news/articles/2006/11/spanish_webcam.html))

Webcams: tools for safety or bait for stalkers? (http://media.www.thelantern.com/media/storage/paper333/news/2006/05/17/Campus/Webcams.Tools.For.Safety.Or.Bait.For.Stalkers-1997653.shtml (http://media.www.thelantern.com/media/storage/paper333/news/2006/05/17/Campus/Webcams.Tools.For.Safety.Or.Bait.For.Stalkers-1997653.shtml))

A U.K. government review in 2004 found that security cameras were effective in tackling vehicle crime but had limited effect on other crimes. Improved street-lighting recorded better results. (http://www.futurepundit.com/archives/001930.html (http://www.futurepundit.com/archives/001930.html))

DAYTON- Mark Wayne Miller, age 45, of Dayton, pled guilty yesterday to one count of Computer Intrusion, arising out of his equally successful efforts to secretly intercept, watch, and record live webcam footage of minor-age girls, without the girls knowing that Miller was watching and recording. Miller faces a minimum of 35 years and up to life in prison when sentenced. (http://www.usdoj.gov/criminal/cybercrime/millerPlea.htm (http://www.usdoj.gov/criminal/cybercrime/millerPlea.htm))


  Those lovely cameras at use! 

Since we're now opening the doors to digital crime, maybe we'll have to look into MORE tools (more unnecessary expense...) for fighting it...

Forensic computer promises to make quick work of digital crime

A European consortium has come up with  a high-speed digital forensic computer dedicated to the task of quickly offloading and analyzing all computer records from email or picture files to database contents and file transfers.
http://www.networkworld.com/community/node/19197 (http://www.networkworld.com/community/node/19197)

Our little city shouldn't get involved in using these things.  The worst-case scenario, we could get sued.

ahhh jeni

are you saying you canlook at various things by controling the camera at the marina??

or at this hard rock cafe?

cause it looks like some are confused.

Okay, let's see if I can explain this process.

Firstly, a public web cam is posted so people can view an area of a city -- in this case in hopes of promoting tourism.

When a webcam is put on the Internet for public viewing, anyone in the entire world can access it.

As such, anyone milling about within view of the public webcam can be seen by anyone in the world viewing said webcam.

So, anyone within viewing range of the webcam by Blue Harbor can be viewed by any kook in the world who can take screen shots, blow them up and do many malicious things with the views.

That tells it like it is. :t

sorry i still don't get it!!

All i can see from the City's website is the dock and some boats!!

no way to move the view?

i'm not even sure if someone was on the pier i could see them!!

Maybe you can't move it from your computer,  but whoever is behind it -- as in tourism, UBO and Co. Excel, etc., they can do any number of things -- and watch whatever and whoever they want to. So even if you can't work it from your computer, that sure doesn't mean someone else can't and around here frankly it bugs me more to picture our city government sitting behind that thing and watching us.

I'd rather been seen by the strangers who may find their way to it, although I don't think that's going to amount to much of anything until or unless perverts and voyeurs find it.

Haven't seen it, won't go look at, have no desire to but a webcam is a webcam, period, and they don't belong viewing the public minding their own business and spending a day at the lake.  That's the way it is. 

Rocky?

are you for real?

you really think anyone from the city will be manning the camera to view you?

Why would anyone care, even if they could?

if they really care about your(or anyone else's) movements

they'd use the police squad Cameras, they are at least mobile!

Rather than waiting for you to go near the marina.

You and Jeni might want to read up on our current Satellite system if you are

really concerned about anyone watching you.

A-hem, even I know a webcam has to be hooked up to a computer to work.  And someone -- anyone -- can sit at that computer and watch it.  I read up a little on these things myself because I'm getting more and more uncomfortable with this and don't trust the people behind it.


From howstuffworks.com:

There are any number of ways to make use of a camera that's connected to your computer. You can get software that will let you make video phone calls with a friend who also has a Webcam. You can hold a video-conferencing session with business associates on the other side of the world. You can conduct a video interview and broadcast it live on your blog. Some Webcam software will even deliver images directly to your Web-enabled PDA or smartphone. Other products let you connect your camcorder to your Webcam setup so you can let everybody watch your vacation footage via the Internet. The possibilities are endless.

Frans, you are REALLY showing how stupid you are, you know that?

that says it all right there.  GET RID OF THE WEBCAMS AND GET CAMERAS IN THE PARKS FOR PUBLIC SAFETY!!!

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